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    #61
    I got some new fenders. Round galvanized-steel trailer fenders--13 cm wide. They were the only ones I could find in that narrow-width--which is exactly perfect for the bakfiets.

    But the radius was just a bit too small. The "factory" Kenda tires would've fit just fine under them, but the much larger Super Moto-X tires--definitely didn't...

    I fixed that.

    I took an old bench from the original bakfiets, and placed one fender on top of it--arching over the bench--then placed the other on the underside of the plank. Then, I wrapped a cargo-strap around them, and ratcheted down. I worked slowly, repositioning, re-checking--I took my time--but bit-by-bit, the fenders were "spread open" a bit wider in this way. Now they're just exactly the radius I needed--and because I squeezed them simultaneously, they both continue to match one another perfectly.

    They're stock trailer fenders though still--and not a perfect custom-fit. They'll not go as far down the wheels as the original bike-fenders did...

    To deal with this, I'll rotate the fender-arches backward, until they meet the rear frame-supports. This will leave each fender with an open gap on the front--sort of like a jeep... I think that'll actually look okay--if not pretty cool. I think I'll try to make a removeable plastic mud-guard to bridge that gap for on-road use--especially in inclement weather--so I can help keep the road-spray and silt from getting everywhere--but I think I will want that mud-guard to be something I can just pop back out again.

    I think the fenders are going to look good, but at least I know they'll be effective. And due to my squeezing-modification, they won't be at risk of rubbing on my tires--as the stock ones currently still are.

    They do disrupt the appearance of the bakfiets though. They'll be a whole lot of silver shiny steel--unless I paint them. I think I'd like it if they were black--like the bakfiets' frame... I wonder how much powder-coating costs...

    More to follow...

    [edit--appended]

    Fenders... Are going to be really cool...

    But I also need to arrange for the inboard-sides--what would you call that--fender skirts?

    Anyway...

    I've got indoor storage (thank heavens).

    But even so, the bakfiets is made of wood. It's pretty-good quality weather-resistant wood--but even so, its vulnerable. All that wood dries out better, if it's not caked in mud or sand--and that's why I want the inside of the fender-wells shielded somehow.

    I'm not scared (obviously) of adapting "non-bicycle" parts for my project. Sometimes it's ridiculous, other times it's just the thing. Basically, I'm looking for a plastic disc of about the right radius, which I can halve--and slip behind the fender, on both sides. Ideally, I'm looking for something that can be a little textured on one side. The idea, is to put that textured/pattered side against the box--with that relief providing some air-space between the layers. If water were to be trapped between plastic and wood--that'd entirely defeat the point of the fender-liner. I could also anchor it with some washers on the backside--to let it breathe. Anways, I'm not committed to any particular solution yet, but I saw some gigantic plastic trays, meant to go under equally gigantic tree-size flower-pots (would you call them tree-pots?)--I'm obviously not a gardener... But I thought maybe, with minimum modification, perhaps I'd get the properties I'm looking for. Keeping my eyes open.
    Last edited by tklop; 09-08-2019, 07:02 AM.

    Comment


    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      Knowing that I'll have some extra room underneath my new fenders, I've been poking around to see if I can find any other tire-options for my machine.

      The bakfiets has no suspension, so obviously all the ride-cushioning has to come from its tires. For non-suspension bikes, balloon-tires are one decent way to tame the severity of the bumps. For my 20" front-rims, the Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires [erto 62-406] running at +/- 55psi are currently (as far as I can tell) the best option out there for my front-wheels. I haven't been able to find any other tires with equal (or greater) air-volume.

      The next-closest ones are in the family of high thread-per-inch high-pressure BMX Street/Ramp tires. Those tires typically lack any leak-protection, but are otherwise in many ways really great tires--depending on the application. I've used them on the bakfiets before--back when the machine was "me-powered" (non-electric). Street & Ramp tires are really awesome in terms of super-low rolling-resistance, and are excellent for on-asphalt grip... But without suspension, they're hard as rock, and feel as though you're riding on wooden wagon-wheels. At e-biking speeds, that's horribly jarring--and completely unacceptable. Eliminating those 20" Street/Ramp tires, from my list of viable options, leaves only a scant assortment of knobbies...

      As of this posting, I haven't yet been able to find any balloon tires broader than those Super Moto-X's; and I haven't found any "fat-tire" options whatsoever.

      Of course new products come along all the time, and I'll keep my eyes open. But for now, I'm sticking with my 20"x 2.4" 62-406 Super Moto-X's--at +/- 55 psi.
      Last edited by tklop; 09-14-2019, 11:22 PM.

    #62
    I have a KMX trike that has 20 inch front wheels. I put a set of Super-motos on it and they are great. You don't need that much pressure either 35-40 psi should be fine.

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    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      You have me thinking now. Maybe I should put a bathroom scale under my tires and see what the weight distribution is. I don't know maybe just more useless information.

    • tklop
      tklop commented
      Editing a comment
      I think the weight-distribution / center-of-gravity data might be interesting to see. The most useful data would be "including rider" --and then perhaps "rider plus cargo" (various configurations, if applicable).

      I'm imagining it might be hard to read the scales when seated. If you leaned and twisted in order to see the dial, you'd affect the readings. Perhaps another human would make that a lot easier... Telescoping mirror maybe--but then the readout would be backwards... Surmountable challenges.

      You could also take weight-measurments with the trike parked along a slope to simulate the weight-distribution while cornering (and if you were really good at math, you could likely extrapolate--though I'd not know where to begin).

      Maybe you're right. Maybe the information would be ultimately impractical, or useless... But yeah--curiosity sometimes demands answers anyway!

      Now I'm going to have to go buy a bathroom-scale myself!

    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't go that far.

    #63
    A quick note:

    Two more e-bike conversions launched into the world... Both belong to my ex...

    First, a 28-inch wheeled Batavus Yakima--which isn't gonna last a lot longer (due to corrosion mostly). It's a 48V system, with a 15AH LiFePO4 rack-battery, powering a 350W Suring front-wheel hub-motor, with KT-LCD3 display, throttle, and PAS. That's my ex's daily-commuter bike. I wanted to do a TSDZ2 mid-drive, but the bike is in too poor condition for that. When it dies, I can swap the front-wheel hub-motor to her next bike, or convert that next one to a TSDZ2--whatever works out.

    Second, a Giant Mio -- Mamafiets (Mamma-bike). That one is another 48V system--this time with regular Lithium Ion 18650 cells in a fish-battery, powering a 750W TSDZ2 mid-drive. Barely fits. The nature of the frame, means the motor really can't swing forward and up--and in fact, there's no room whatsoever for the rear-support bracket. I've got everything tightened down, and if needed, I can always manufacture a new bracket, or even potentially machine down the existing one until I can make it fit, but for now--I'll just see how it goes.

    More notes may follow on these two builds.

    That makes a total of five bikes I've now made electric (though the thee-wheel-drive bakfiets should almost count as three separate conversions--I've still only counted it as one).

    I'm not a pro at this--and I don't want to be. But I generally satisfied with my results so far.

    Comment


      #64
      Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
      I have a KMX trike that has 20 inch front wheels. I put a set of Super-motos on it and they are great. You don't need that much pressure either 35-40 psi should be fine.
      I've dropped that PSI--and have ridden for a while that way now. Yep. Better. Much better. Thank you!

      October didn't end up being DD month. Maybe November.

      I hope they're quieter.

      The banshee-wail of the geared-hub motors is a bit much. I love their performance! But the noise sometimes startles the hell out of people--other times clearly annoys.

      I hope they're quieter.

      Comment


      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        I'll see how they do with the stock controllers (KT48ZWSRK-TY01C is the model, rated 22A continuous, 45A peak). What info I can find lists them as sine-wave, but I'll just have to try them out. If they're awfully loud, then a controller upgrade isn't out of the question.

        I'm intrigued to see how they work out too--with regen... I suspect that when it comes to regen, my added intertia (because my machine is so heavy) may mean I get a lot more value from regen than most bikes (which would be featherlight in comparison). If that proves true, and regen proves successful, I may eventually set up a trailer with DD's--using them exclusively for regen and braking. If inertia is my freind--when it comes to regen--then a regen-trailer might actually work quite well--when loaded down (it would obviously be frightfully dangerous to power a trailer).

        Crazy stuff I think about...

        Soon I'll get those wheels built, then give it a try--and then I'll start to get some answers. Speculation is fun--but I want to get to testing!
        Last edited by tklop; 11-10-2019, 12:48 AM.

      • calfee20
        calfee20 commented
        Editing a comment
        My trike and my bike have the same 18 fett controller but the trike has a 35mm stator and the bike a 45mm stator. The windings are also slightly different to with the 45mm having a winding for a little more torque. Anyway the 45mm motor has an insane amount of regen "braking" it was almost like slamming on the brakes. I had to go into the programming and tone it down. Both bikes are about 100 pounds, 45 kilos. That will be 350# with me on it.

      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        My DD's are 30H which should be less severe than your 45H's (I assume). And the rig is comparable to your trike--maybe a little heavier... But with two of them working together, I do expect the braking could be quite strong (though I doubt it'd be a linear comparison--when added together, that's 60H worth of magnets under my cargo box). I requested the motors for high torque, low top speed--maybe that'll also make the e-braking more severe.

        Fortunately, I've got nice heavy bar-stock type steel dropouts--about 1/4" thick steel. I'll get them locked down one way or another!

        I intend to delve into the programming. The controller's programming guide says that the "best regen" setting offers the least e-braking; and as the e-braking incrementally gets stronger, the regen becomes less and less effective. This at least seems to imply, that some sort of double-compromise should be attainable--selecting perhaps the second or third best regen-setting, while being sure I've adequate braking (the discs can take up the task for emergency stops). If the braking isn't too severe, I don't expect it'll cause much overheating either.

        I've found that even with the 350W (which are actually 750W) geared-hub motors---when I've got two motors pulling together, they deliver a heck of a lot of power. I'm hoping at least--that by teaming the front-wheels up, the e-braking force will be similarly enhanced; allowing me to select a fairly soft e-braking setting, and hopefully leaving a semi-decent amount of regen effectiveness. My plan also, is to adjust my riding style--to lengthen my stopping distances; hopefully turning as much of my intertia into regen as possible. I'm eager to experiment.

        If budget constraints allow--I'm going to drop the motors off at the wheel-builder. (short tangent) Being in The Netherlands is pretty awesome. I've got a shop just across town, does nothing but build bicycle wheels... Next-day delivery or pick-up. How cool is that? This place is about as bike-friendly as any place could ever be! You can bring in your own hub, even your own rim--or order from their extensive in-stock warehouse. And--it's so cheap, that I see zero reason to attempt to build my own wheels ever again. Awesome!
        Last edited by tklop; 11-10-2019, 09:36 AM.

      #65
      Got the DD hub-motors dropped off for building today. When they're done, I'll still need to swap controllers in order to make the install work. I might also need to swap to another type mechanical disc-brake-caliper (ain't much clearance on the wheel-side of the disc)... I'll have to see how tight it is--perhaps swapping the DD motors' screws for a style with a lower-profile head (round-head, or pan-head might work better) --if lucky, perhaps that might be enough... With every advancement comes new hurdles--naturally.

      DD motors will mean another slight improvement in terms of stability. They're heavier. More weight at the wheel-axles, shifts the center-of-mass lower (even if only slightly). Every little bit helps.

      I have tried to imagine ways for further lowering the center-of-mass. Perhaps I could do a floor-battery----that is, lay out say 72V and 200AH (or maybe more) worth of LiFePO4 cells--basically covering the plywood floor of the bakfiets--maybe one layer of cells, maybe two--then drop another plywood floor on top--turning it into a plywood-battery-sandwich. Wire it all together, with the BMS in my electronics-bay (under the bench). That'd be pretty awesome.

      Also: Speaking of batteries...

      Since repairing my 2nd suitcase-battery, I've been doing some various runs with it. It too has a Bluetooth interface, but doesn't display speed, or distance, or effieciency--or really anything all that terribly useful. It seems to be doing alright. I can punch both throttles, max-demands from all three systems, and there's no issues at all. The BMS isn't even getting hot. So--yeah... So far, so good.

      I need to really stretch it out one of these days--and see if I can determine what its effective range is (and calculate its "real" versus advertised capacity).

      More to follow--I'm sure.
      Last edited by tklop; 11-13-2019, 10:16 AM.

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      • tklop
        tklop commented
        Editing a comment
        From what I can gather, the following things seem to be true when it comes to regen--in bikes anyway:

        We've got two separate things gong on, "Regen" and "E-braking"

        From what I gather, regen--is binary; it's either on, or it's off--and on its own, regen doesn't provide much braking help--not much rotational resistance at all.

        And it's my understanding that electric braking forces don't help regen at all, but actually consume battery-power--reducing the effectiveness of regen with each progressively stronger setting.

        If those assumptions are correct, I believe I will be able to recover more energy than average, for a couple reasons:

        1) I have two-wheels working together. Logically, I'd assume that at any given rotational speed, I should be getting double the regen--with two wheels regen-ing--as opposed to only one.

        2) I have a lot more inertia to work with--which means I can brake earlier--increasing the length and duration of coasting/braking regen-periods. By taking longer to stop, I expect greater energy-recovery results.

        Now---if it turns out I'm wrong--and none of that matters at all, and I only get what most users are recovering--that is to say between 5% and 10% generally speaking--I'll still be totally happy with that.

        I've just got the feeling I'm gonna do a little better.
        Last edited by tklop; 11-13-2019, 11:07 PM.

      #66
      Something from the Commuter Lights thread had me thinking... Oh, no--not again, right? I know--I know...

      But here's the thing: I have the Bluetooth speaker-system on the bakfiets, and it'd be really cool if I could set up some various audio-clips--to amuse myself, to terrify dogs--whatever the case may be...

      I'm wondering if there's some kind of an app (a free one)--where you can load in your own sound-effects or clips, and activate them in such a way. Using the Bluetooth for the audio-output achieves my goal--if such a thing exists... Simple interface--maybe four different buttons--one sound per... I dunno...

      It'd be like a modern take on the classic "trick horn" ---only yeah... I want snarling lions. I want Ride of the Valkyries. I want shrieking demons. I'm not sure what else just yet!

      Anyways...

      This is what happens when I start thinking.
      Last edited by tklop; 11-20-2019, 01:21 AM.

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        #67
        Update on the DD motors...

        I got them, and hooked one up to one of the 45A controllers I've got, with LCD3 displays--the "default" setup--and everything was groovy.

        When ordering the motors from Suring, I'd also ordered a set of Cyclone 40A Bluetooth controllers from Paco--at Cyclone-TW to try and run the motors (Paco was able to easily verify compatibility for me)... I'll explain why I wanted those Cyclone controllers further down the page in a minute...

        Anyways--when I went to hook up one of the Cyclone controllers, I got a bit ahead of myself.

        Without double-checking the wiring diagram (long-ago bookmarked by me, a million-times seen--even posted recently in a reply to someone else's inquiry ) --yes--without ever double-checking it, I hooked the "Red" wire from the "multi" JST plug off the Cyclone controller--to the "Red" power-lead for the Hall Sensor/Temp Sensor circuit... Duh...

        (to any that may not understand why, "Duh..." ----well, here goes: When I powered the controller on, it supplied Full 48VDC Battery Voltage to the Hall Sensors' circuit--rather than the nice-and-friendly 5VDC source it was meant to be connected to. The correct wire to have connected--was the yellow one, with green stripe--a fact easily and simply discerned by double-checking the wiring diagram).

        Since the motor didn't seem to work on the Cyclone controller (unaware that was because I'd already broken it), I disconnected it--and pretty much didn't think about the "alternate" controller option anymore. I thought, "Well, if it works with those KT-LCD3's--and the 45A controllers--then good enough"...

        So, still not yet realizing my wiring-mistake (nor for that matter which motor was which--after all, I'd bought two)--I then re-tested the 1st motor, with the KT-LCD3 controller (thinking it was the second-motor)--and well--of course it still worked. So, immersed in a crisis-of-perception, I figured--"all is well" (though unbeknownst to me--it most certainly wasn't).

        And so off the motors went to the wheel-builder...

        When I got them back I tested them--well lo and behold, one of 'em didn't work.

        Still clueless that I'd fried one of their hall-sensors, I was at a loss--and contacted the manufacturer for advice.

        Suring (an AliExpress vendor--my only motor-vendor to this point--actually)---was quite helpful, and ran through various troubleshooting procedures, suggesting various combinations of hall sensor wires and phase wires... We went back and forth several times--over the course of a few days' troubleshooting (across the vast time-zone differences)... Evenutally, it did appear to be a hall-sensor issue--though he was at a loss as to how that could be possible. He'd tested everything thoroughly before shipping them out...

        The vendor sent to me (free--also without postage costs) a nice "e-bike tester" --a snazzy little device for testing both BLDC motors and controllers circuitry--specifically Motor Hall Sensor and Phase connections; Controller Hall Sensor and Phase connections; and includes a Hall-Sensor Type Throttle Tester and E-brake circuit tester. The phase-wires each have color-coded shielded alligator-clips for connections, while the hall-sensor connections are "Sondors" standard--as are the Throttle connections (the wires could be switched-around to test Cyclone-type throttles). Tester runs on a 9V battery. Maybe I'll remember to get a picture of the tester... The vendor also included three new assembled Hall Sensor circuit-cards, as well as nine loose Hall Sensors.

        Sure enough, the tester verified that I had no working "blue-wire" Hall Sensor.

        Per online advice, I removed the old Hall Sensor circuit-card, swapped over the soldered connections, and glued the new one in place.

        I do apologize--I know--I'm lame--didn't get a bunch of pictures of the repair. I have trouble uploading them in reasonable sizes...

        The motor worked fine upon reassembly--with the Sondor-style controllers and displays...

        It was only then--when I decided once again, to try and bust out those Cyclone controllers, that I began to question myself--and slowly begin to realize what happened...

        Once I looked back at that wiring-diagram again (for the umpteen millionth time)--there it was... The brightest-colored effin' wire on that whole sheet--is the wire I failed to connect correctly! Immediately, my crisis-of-perception was averted.

        It was kind-of a pain to temp-wire up all the connections, but eventually I succeeded... Further, I had to swap out the Green and Yellow Phase-wires to get the Cyclone to turn the wheel. Even though it's default rotation was backwards, I knew how to correct that--and best of all--I knew it was alive! :-)

        As soon as the testing was successful on the Cyclone controller, I wrote back to the vendor--to explain what happened--that the mystery was solved, and that it was 100% my own darn faut. I told him I'd be more than happy to pay for the items he sent... And you know what? He just told me, "Thanks for being honest--but don't worry. What is important, is that your motor is working now! [Smile}." Now... I do realize that maybe this vendor is special--but it must be stated: Some Chinese vendors offer incredible post-purchase support. Suring motors--is certainly one of them.

        Oh, yeah... Now--why the Cyclone controllers? Functionality. Options--and no need for a vulnarable display. The Cyclone's BT controller gives me lots of configurability. Even all the speed-related features actually work with a DD--whereas they're useless with a multi-gear mid-drive.

        I can have a switch for Reverse-gear (and I can set a reduced reverse-gear speed-limit--so I'm less likely to get run over by my own bakfiets).

        I can have Regen and E-braking (strength of e-braking also programmable)

        I can have a switch for activating a preset speed-limit (another speed-dependent feature that works more effectively with DD motors).

        I can have my 3-speed switch too--and still enjoy up to 10% "overspeed" (and it makes an awesome almost "Airwolf"-like sound when it kicks in).

        I can have a switch to turn my PAS on and off

        I can have a momentary button for manual cruise-control (and I can use this separately or in combination with the Automatic Cruise Control feature).

        I can set many parameters inside the controller, such as "Soft Start" and "Fast Start"

        I'm going to end up with so many switches it'll start looking like an airplane! I kind-of like that. :-) Wait until you see what I'm going to do to mount them all...
        So--yeah... I think I do want to power them with the Cyclone controllers...

        But there's one thing... One thing missing... Temp-sensing. The motors have temp-sensors. I ordered them that way--because I want to be able to monitor and protect them from (prolonged) overheating.

        I know that those controllers have a temp-sensor inside. The controller's temp is displayed in the app... But in the App Video--it shows also "Motor Temp" in their app... In any case, I've obviously got no "temp sensor" wire coming out of the controller-housing... If I open up the controller, and look for its own temp-sensor, its circuit-path may lead to a solder-point for an external (motor) temp-sensor--or maybe it won't... And really--do I want my controller sensing it anyway? What that would mean, is that I'd need the YY app open to see my motor-temps. And part of the advantage of Cyclone--was "displayless" --so... Yeah... Not sure that's the answer anyway.

        But--what then? I don't need (and don't want to buy) a trio of Cycle Analysts... I'd rather just set up simple Motor Temp gauges... But how then? Not sure... I'll need to think about it...

        [EDIT--Insertion; Author has done as he said--and thought about it]

        https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3261...7c862e0efV2vsT

        That might be the thing. Looks as it it'll work with multiple temp-ranges of sensors... So--it ought to do the trick! --but then, I'm not really that confident--so I've messaged the vendor. We'll see...

        I don't want any display at all, but if I do have to be stuck with one, that thing isn't too hideous or gigantic. No, I don't dig the green backlight--but I can't complain--it doesn't come on unless you press the button--and then, it only stays on for 2 seconds. I'm actually pretty cool with that--even AZ guy probably couldn't hate on it too hard! ;-)

        I like that you can set your own preset "alarm" temperatures. My manufacturer's advice, is to keep the motors from exceeding 120 degrees Celsius for more than 20 minutes---and in no case, to let them exceed 129 degrees Celsius. I can set that meter to flash it's little triangle at me, whenever I exceed 120 degrees Celsius--and oh, yeah--I also like that it's not going to SCREAM its warning at me; a visual notification is adequate.

        I won't have any "auto-shutdown" protection to keep me below 130 degrees Celsius. I'll have to utilize my brains if I want that feature.

        [END EDIT]

        I've used my old bakfiets front-frame as a test-stand for the DD motors--so they can both turn together (off the same throttle, etc).

        Test Stand Observations: Though the speed-settings in the Cyclone system cannot be calibrated with my test-stand setup, and therefore the numbers displayed in the app aren't reliable at this stage--I can certainly tell that the Cyclone delivers a higher "unloaded" top-speed / peak RPM when compared with the "stock" Sondors-style controllers with KT-LCD3 displays. When calibrated to 20 inch wheel-size, the Sondors-style systems' displays indicate about a 25 kmh unloaded top-speed (ordered the motors that way--wound for high-torque, lower max RPM). With my Super Moto-X tires, my effective wheel-size works out being much closer to 23 or 24 inches when all is said and done. In any case, I'm not sure just how much--but between the two systems, there's a notable difference in speed which is observable to the eye, and the elevation in comparative sound/tone is significant--and clearly audible--from the Cyclone--vs. the Sondors-style controller and display. Though I can't say for sure by how much, I can definitively say the Cyclone 40A controller is turning the DD motors faster--by default. I believe with that additional "10% Overspeed" available (via my 3-Speed Switch's High-Speed setting), I should get plenty of performance from my modest little 1500W DD motors.

        There will be more to follow...

        [edit] added 1/19/2020

        Current dashboard is a chaotic mess...

        I've got the Cyclone switched on and off via the keyed switch, while the twin Suring motors with their Sondors-style control systems switch on and off via their displays (or simultaneously via thier mutually-shared dongle). The clunky combo-switch (three-speed/cruise-control -- or more accurately turn-signal/horn/headlight switch thusly repurposed) --the clunky beast is still in use--and I've a handle-bar mounted switch to turn the PAS on and off for the Cyclone...

        Now that I'm going with three Cyclone controllers, I will actually need MORE darn switches--but this also presents the opportunity to consolidate.

        The displays (thankfully) will go.

        I do have an On/Off/On switch I can use to replace the hideous 3-way switch. I will hook all three systems to it--and if the Cyclone4K continues to suck with overspeed--I'll just turn the "overspeed" off for that controller--no big deal.

        But in any case, I intend to link the controllers' circuits wherever appropriate.

        Obviously, only one "Low Brake" signal need be sent to each controller.

        Only the "Signal" lead from both Throttle and PAS is needed to control multiple systems--the sensors need only be powered via the + and - from one controller.

        But the thing is--I do like having a separate throttle for the front-motors--so realistically, that one will only be split two-ways (for both front-motors) while the PAS can be split three-ways.

        A good reason to keep the throttles separate, has to do with the "Reverse" switch. My front-motors will "back up" while the 4KW Cyclone mid-motor cannot. If I were to tie the throttles together, I'd need to also hook up the "Reverse" switch for the Cyclone 4KW (even though all it would do is freewheel). Otherwise, applying the throttle would be sending the front-motors backwards, while the Cyclone pushed forwards.

        But sometimes, maybe I'll want more configurability. For example, I may wish to have two separate PAS on/off switches--so I can choose to operate either front or rear system "Throttle Only" wherever and whenever I choose.

        I may be able to adjust the settings in the app--so that speed-sensitive features like the Speed Limiter will actually work similarly between the two systems--and if so, that's another switch that could be shared.

        And I think I'd like to link all three controllers to the same keyed power-switch.

        And... I still need to solder up my 200A battery-switch...

        But bit-by-bit I'm refining... Sure... I've even said it myself--even in this very thread, I'm sure... It's a heck of a lot easier doing something "right" the first time--but then--there's (potentially) even more value, in following a learning-curve. I think you get a broader more systemic view through trials and errors...

        Or maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about the occasional wasted dollar...

        Either way--this project isn't "done". Rather, I completely expect it will continue to evolve...

        But as it does, it keeps on getting closer and closer to how I want it!

        More to follow

        [edit: Insert Picture Below]


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        Last edited by tklop; 01-20-2020, 05:44 AM.

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          #68
          You know what would be an amazingly awesome project?

          I'm thinking a 4KW Cyclone--to power one of those old pedal-boats. Ditch the freewheel--and just direct-drive it. After all--you gotta have reverse!

          I live in an apartment. I would have no place to park one--even if I wanted to try such madness... You'd not be exactly fast--even with 4 to 6 horsepower available to you (depending upon system voltage)--but it'd be loads of fun!

          I've got my battery inside a Pelican Storm series hard-shell equipment case. It's waterproof--airtight if I close the valve. Short of a full-on capsize, I'm sure I could power such a thing safely...

          But I've got to wonder (having not yet looked) if anyone else has had the crazy notion!

          I dreamt the other day I had merged one of those inflatable-pontoon-style boats with my bakfiets--and had turned the machine amphibious.

          I had used a compressed air-cylinder (refillable at any gas-station) for rapid pontoon-inflation.

          I'd set it up to not ride too low--idea being to minimize water contact with electrical components--pretty much floating (with rider) only just about spokes-deep (tire and rim in the water). In my dream, the beast was indeed moveable, and maneuverable--but only barely. The tires seemed to froth the water up more than anything else (pretty much what I'd expect)... Sometimes my dreams are frightfully realistic!

          On awakening, I reconsidered the design. Instead of attatching the pontoons to the bakfiets, I imagined a drive-in version. When parked in the middle of the boat, each wheel would sit on a pair of rollers (like you'd have under the wheels of a car for an emmissions test, or horsepower test etc.). These rollers would be linked by chain to a paddle-wheel; meaning each of the bakfiets' three wheels would have it's own paddle-wheel to turn.

          The controls would need to be modified, to allow separate actuation of the front-wheel motors. In order to gain full maneuverability, each front-motor would need to be able to operate both forward and reverse--also opposite directions from each-other simultaneously.

          The rear-wheel's controls could still remain "forward-only" --but the rear-wheel's paddle could also be made much larger (or with broader paddles) to be able to take full advantage of the Cyclone's higher power-output.

          With the right support and rigging, the rear-frame could still be allowed to move side-to-side for additional steering control, though it'd mean my weight (the rider's weight) would shift side-to-side as well. While this leaning would be to the inside of the turn, that's worth considering...

          At any rate, this more-thought-through (because I was awake) kind-of amphibious drive-system would leave the bakfiets sitting higher-up--so a little tilting to one side wouldn't be such a big deal. Riding higher would probably require bigger pontoons--in order to make sure there's enough stability... But I think it'd work a lot better this way than the way it did in the dream.

          I'm still thinking compressed-air inflation would be the way to go--but have the pontoon-boat collapsed down, with some removeable wheels under it--turn the boat into a trailer. Get to the lakeshore, unhitch, unfold, drive on, and sail away! If only I had the disposable income to work with, I honestly do think I could design something stable enough for use around the canals of The Netherlands... If I one day do so--I'll be certainly posting about it here!

          But anyways--it was that dream--and the subsequent contemplation--that lead to the Cyclone-powered recreational pedal-boat idea...

          Imagination is fun!
          Last edited by tklop; 01-19-2020, 10:23 AM.

          Comment


            #69
            Wiring, wiring, wiring...

            Converting to the Cyclone 40A Bluetooth Controllers with the Suring 30H 1500W DD motors...

            In the process, I'm also trying to tidy up my electrical panel, as well as the handlebars.

            Gone are the double-displays, and their dongle. That's already a huge improvement.

            I know it's probably wiser to go ahead and hard-solder all the connections, but I also want everything to remain modular. So--that means connectors. Lots and lots of them... Nothing fancy--common crimp-connectors. But yeah--gosh. A lot of 'em.

            Still, I've eliminated almost all the clunky standard ones, and have consolidated the wiring as well to remove all the extra - and + wires too.

            That's all good--but yeah... It's still one hell of a lot of wires...

            Three systems has a lot to do with that.

            When I'm through, it's going to be very tidy-looking, simple, and much more weatherproof than before...

            More to follow.

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            Last edited by tklop; 01-25-2020, 12:04 PM.

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            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              "tidy-looking" --uh... No--I am not completely oblivious--I can indeed see the picture I posted! ;-)

              But that electrical panel is indeed a heck of a lot tidier than it once was--even if it does obviously remain a mess.

              I could also have hacked all the wires to "minimum-lengths" and then route them neatly, in nice bundles--Aerospace Industry Style... That'd have been the end-result--the exact appearance I'd prefer--from a visual standpoint. Easy to inspect, impresses friends... People see it--and their socks go up and down like in the old-fashioned cartoons...

              But I thought about it--and decided intentionally to do otherwise--to keep it simple. For example, I decided not to open up the controllers, and pull the unneeded wires inside, eliminating all those ugly cut-ends... That would've also meant re-waterproofing the ends. That's no big deal--but for a controller-replacement, it's an extra step--that eats time, materials, and doesn't actually accomplish much that chopping-off didn't already do. By leaving the old wire-ends in place, they'll continue to help keep moisture out of the controllers too (which are under-cover, but still will be exposed to outdoor air). I also decided against all that pretty routing and bundling for the same reasons. It will not increase functionality in any way, but it will slow down and unneccesarily complicate component-replacement. If any given component cooks, its replacement is one heck of a lot easier if I keep the installation modular (and as simple as reasonably possible). Even if a controller cooks, I can replace it more easily because everything plugs-together rather than being hard-soldered--and because I don't have to disturb and redo a bunch of pretty wiring bundles. Snip, snip, snip, crimp, crimp, crimp, (etc.) then ride.

              So, with all that in perspective, even if what I've done this time around isn't altogether perfect, I do feel it's a decent compromise. Sure, it's not the Aerospace Standards I'd visually prefer to see--but it's still a far cry from the horrible "temp-install that worked--and so wound up being semi-permanent" --which is pretty much what I started out with back with Bakfiets #1.

              I also reserve the right to completly change perspective on this in the future--especailly if it turns out components are lasting eons. Tidy routing and bundling may one day still be in the cards.

              More to follow...
              Last edited by tklop; 01-26-2020, 12:48 AM.

            #70
            The bakfiets is all put back together again...

            Displays are gone. In fact, there's nothing at all that lights up on the bike--except for external lighting--and I can turn that off if I like.

            Brakes... Oh--there's always something with the godforsaken brakes. My cable-actuated disc-brake calipers are too fat--won't fit between the motor and the disc. But--now I've got DD motors, so that means I've got e-braking.

            I have made a very pleasant discovery in that regard. The 40A YY controllers I bought from Paco at Cyclone-TW are absolutely awesome with e-braking. The force does bleed off as I come to a stop, but it doesn't just go to zero and coast like the Sondors-style controllers. There's rolling-resistance even when stopped from the YY controllers. It's so effective, that when coupled with my SA-XLRD3 and its 90MM drum-brake, the stopping is good enough that I'm tempted to just give up on the idea of mechanical front-brakes altogether. Since going with front-wheel hub-motors, I've yet to have any truly effective and trustworthy front-brakes. So I've always been ready for failures anyway. Sure--if I suffer an electrical failure, I'm down to just my rear-brake. But that situation was already the case any time my never-that-reliable front-brakes failed in the past. Those failures were unpredictable, and without warning. In contrast, if the power quits--I'm gonna notice that immediately. Just like in a car--that loses power-brakes (and power-steering), my braking will be limited if my power-supply is interrupted.

            Anyways...

            Beyond the brakes--the machine is a beautiful thing. Truly asthetically good now--from the outside.

            I've built a little control console sits in the middle of my handlebars. There's a pull-type headlight switch, and then a row of 5 switches for the various motor-controls; three-way-switch, speed-limiter, PAS on/off, combine throttle-signals (either throttle can operate both front and rear systems), and reverse; while the momentary button on the top is for setting manual cruise control (front-motors only; the Cyclone 4KW with waterproof cable doesn't have manual cruise-control--only auto-cruise).

            All three systems' wiring comes together into that console--brake-handles' wires, power switch, throttles, all going in--with only the bare-minimum number of wires going back-and-forth between there and the electronics bay. To operate both motors and controllers, that comes out to fifteen wires (including two--one for each temp-probe's signal leg) and then another four wires to operate the lighting circuits--all gathered together and sent through about a meter of canuflex into the electronics bay.

            The clunky 3-speed switch is still there. I may upgrade to one for a motorcycle/scooter so it'll be sturdier and maybe more weather resistant... But for now--it's living up to its original purpose---turn-signals, and horn... Not sure what to do with the red switch just yet--if anything at all. I didn't try to squeeze that into the canuflex--because I'm debating replacing that thing anyway.

            I'm very pleased so far... I hope to do some testing tomorrow--to see just what I can get the new motors to do!

            More to follow, I'm sure...

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            Last edited by tklop; 01-27-2020, 03:50 PM.

            Comment


            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              I'll probably try to source a cheap one-sided cable-actuated mechanical caliper at some point--if I can find one that'll fit... But in the meantime, I'm going to just go with front-wheel e-brakes.

            #71
            Originally posted by tklop View Post
            The bakfiets is all put back together again...

            Displays are gone. In fact, there's nothing at all that lights up on the bike--except for external lighting--and I can turn that off if I like.

            Brakes... Oh--there's always something with the godforsaken brakes. My cable-actuated disc-brake calipers are too fat--won't fit between the motor and the disc. But--now I've got DD motors, so that means I've got e-braking.

            I have made a very pleasant discovery in that regard. The 40A YY controllers I bought from Paco at Cyclone-TW are absolutely awesome with e-braking. The force does bleed off as I come to a stop, but it doesn't just go to zero and coast like the Sondors-style controllers. There's rolling-resistance even when stopped from the YY controllers. It's so effective, that when coupled with my SA-XLRD3 and its 90MM drum-brake, the stopping is good enough that I'm tempted to just give up on the idea of mechanical front-brakes altogether. Since going with front-wheel hub-motors, I've yet to have any truly effective and trustworthy front-brakes. So I've always been ready for failures anyway. Sure--if I suffer an electrical failure, I'm down to just my rear-brake. But that situation was already the case any time my never-that-reliable front-brakes failed in the past. Those failures were unpredictable, and without warning. In contrast, if the power quits--I'm gonna notice that immediately. Just like in a car--that loses power-brakes (and power-steering), my braking will be limited if my power-supply is interrupted.

            Anyways...

            Beyond the brakes--the machine is a beautiful thing. Truly asthetically good now--from the outside.

            I've built a little control console sits in the middle of my handlebars. There's a pull-type headlight switch, and then a row of 5 switches for the various motor-controls; three-way-switch, speed-limiter, PAS on/off, combine throttle-signals (either throttle can operate both front and rear systems), and reverse; while the momentary button on the top is for setting manual cruise control (front-motors only; the Cyclone 4KW with waterproof cable doesn't have manual cruise-control--only auto-cruise).

            All three systems' wiring comes together into that console--brake-handles' wires, power switch, throttles, all going in--with only the bare-minimum number of wires going back-and-forth between there and the electronics bay. To operate both motors and controllers, that comes out to fifteen wires (including two--one for each temp-probe's signal leg) and then another four wires to operate the lighting circuits--all gathered together and sent through about a meter of canuflex into the electronics bay.

            The clunky 3-speed switch is still there. I may upgrade to one for a motorcycle/scooter so it'll be sturdier and maybe more weather resistant... But for now--it's living up to its original purpose---turn-signals, and horn... Not sure what to do with the red switch just yet--if anything at all. I didn't try to squeeze that into the canuflex--because I'm debating replacing that thing anyway.

            I'm very pleased so far... I hope to do some testing tomorrow--to see just what I can get the new motors to do!

            More to follow, I'm sure...

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            I have had to add a disc spacer to most of my installations. The calipers that came on my Electra Fat cruiser are narrower than an Avid BB-7 and they have come in handy a couple of times.

            Comment


            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks, @calfee20

              Out of curiosity--what did you use for a spacer? Is there something aftermarket--something I just haven't seen yet?

            #72
            Grin in Canada has an Aluminum one https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-...iskspacer.html

            I have a couple of stainless ones that Luna made but I couldn't find them on their site just now.

            Then I remembered that you are in Europe so your best bet would be Vector in Germany. https://vectorebike.com/bike/other They also have a caliper spacer that is nice and I haven't seen one anywhere else. I had a beef with then over an order. The box was open and the $44.00 front hub was missing and they wouldn't do anything for me. I had spent $1500.00 or so from them perviously and now thy have lost me as a customer over $44.00...OH Well

            Comment


            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks, calfee20 :-)

              I appreciate you pointing me in the direction of Vector--and also the heads-up about having a beef. If I buy from them, I'll keep my eyes wide open.

              I've yet to experiment with anything for the front-motors except for the default settings--and to activate various features.

              The electronic braking defaults (for the YY controllers) to a value of 5 (scale of 1 to 10).

              First worth noting, is that the braking "comes on" about 1/2 second after the brake-handles are activated. And--the braking-force just "Klunk" comes on, and is fairly constant--and doesn't "bleed off" until below walking-speed (and even then--there's still rolling-resistance).

              The slight delay was disconcerting at first--but actually, it's not such a bad thing. Means just a "tap" on the brake-handle will disengage the Cruise-Control (for example) without engaging the brakes. I like that.

              What the braking performance means, is that yes indeed--the front-wheel electronic braking alone is certainly more than adequate to stop my machine.

              However--for the interest of safety, and redundancy (my Aerospace Maintenance background likes safety and redundancy) ---I do want to see if I can get mechanical brakes going again. I might even consider rim-squeezing friction-type traditional caliper-brakes----if I only could find some with a top-center mount--which are also capable of getting around those Super Moto X tires!

              Oh, Brakes... Obominable brakes. But I swear--the electronic braking is far-and-away the best braking solution for this machine since the 90mm SA XL-FDD's came off...

              But yeah...

              More to follow!
              Last edited by tklop; 01-29-2020, 04:05 AM.

            #73

            This machine is amazing! :-)

            DD front-wheel motors... Oh, my... I mean seriously... My, oh, my!

            Remember when I mentioned those old films from the Bonneville Salt Flats?

            Yeah--I don't need to get into the entire descriptive sequence... Suffice to say, that happended again!

            What could I say? "Holy Acceleration, Batman!" comes to mind.

            Bakfiets. Babboe Big bakfiets. Three-wheeled heavy-as-hell unwieldy traffic-jam causing other cyclist-annoying Babboe Big bakfiets... But not this one--no. This one--will not be hindering the flow of traffic!

            I can hardly stop grinning! I don't want to go home--I don't want to "park"--even though it's winter, and rainy, and cold. But I did anyway--because I think I have picked up a tack or a thorn in one of my front-wheels... I've put more air in there--we'll see how fast it bleeds off. I'll get to it anyway--this'll be my first flat on those tires in over a year's worth of (sporadic) riding.

            The front-wheels' DD hub-motors are very quiet--can't hear them at all on-speed (for all the wind in my ears). They're also very powerful.

            I don't know how else to describe it--except to state unequivocally--that my heavy-ass bakfiets now has passing power... No--that's still not it. I do mean serious passing-power!

            On my test-run, I glided up in the queue behind another e-bike (standard up to 25kph sort), and matched his speed, while waiting for a gap in the opposing traffic (my machine is wide--passing courteously is a must)... When I found my gap tho--and mashed the throttle--it was incredible. Just "launched" right around the cyclist--hang-on-to-the-handlebars acceleration--from 25kmh to ?...

            And that is the last bit...

            I do not know how fast it can go yet. It's faster than before--certainly--based upon which gearing matches up with the mid-drive...

            Before--with the geared-hub motors, I could get right up to the edge of their max-speed, and just up to the edge of the Cyclone's max speed (normal-mode with the IGH in its 2nd gear)--and each system gave the other just a tiny bit extra--another 1.5kmh or so to the "top speed" with both systems at WOT in comparison to only one system with WOT...

            So that was "top end" before--and that was around 35kph or so (depending upon battery-charge, headwind, load, etc.).

            Yeah--there was still that 3rd gear available on the SA IGH--but since I've had my 4KW Cyclone set super-soft----detuned in the app for fewer sheared sprockets--that third gear is just too tall... There's just not enough "oomph" on its own to push this plywood crate any faster (the geared-hubs just freewheeling uselessly along). I suppose also worth mentioning--in terms of "detuning factors" --is that I'm exclusively using the Cyclone Mid-Drive's large 44T sprocket.

            Now--with the front-motors at WOT, it's the Cyclone that's freewheeling uselessly (in 2nd-gear). In order to keep the Cyclone 4KW mid-drive involved, I do now need to drop into that IGH's 3rd-gear--where all three systems can team up to get me up to "max" speed.

            What will that be? How much faster? I'm not sure yet. I still haven't even begun to play with the High Speed mode yet! The YY controllers will give me another 10% in High Speed mode--from the front-wheel DD motors; but for the Cyclone 4KW, I can get up to 35% extra (will check and correct that later if I got the numbers wrong)--but in 2nd-gear--maybe the Cyclone 4KW will align again with the DD motors' top-end. I just don't know yet--there'll have to be more experiments, before I can determine whether or not I can escape any lahars.

            As mentioned--I'm back to no display (except my mobile-device--when I choose to use it as one). I'm so darn happy about that! I remember AZguy saying how he can't stand glowing stuff ruining his night-rides. I completely agree with him. That was one of the big plusses with the Cyclone system in the first place. Adding the original geared front-wheel motors meant displays--or else practically no configurability. I accepted that. But even being able to turn the glowing backlights from those displays off--I still prefer to just not have them at all... And now? That's what I've got. All three motors have Cyclone controllers--all three linked up with my control-console, and it's switches. Nice and black, nice and waterproof--and nothing glowing involved!

            Anyways--in order to determine things like top-speed, I will need to use my mobile device's GPS. That'll be for another day.

            But when it comes to speed--the YY controllers from Cyclone-TW are fantastic. They allow for five different "Speed Ranges" that you can select via switches: Normal Speed (not programmable), 3sp sw High Speed (programmable), 3sp sw Low Speed (programmable), and Speed Limiter (programmable). The first two toggle switches on that console I built (from the left) control these. The first toggle switch is an On/Off/On switch (for the 3sp sw), the others are simple On/Off switches. By combining the 3-speed switch's "Low" setting, with the Speed-Limit switch "On" a 5th--even slower top-speed can also be selected. I will try to get this one set for "Off-Road" (sand/mud/difficult or soft terrain).

            Whenever any speed-range is selected, the throttle-response is porportionately divided across the new speed-range. What this effectively means, is that you get less "twitchy" --less overly-sensitive throttle movements; progressively less so, with each "lower" speed-range selected. This is super-nice in traffic, when you don't want to be SURGING forward with every tiny touch of the throttle. This is also why, when in "High Speed" mode (on the 3-speed switch) that the throttle is so extremely sensitive... Not that it really matters tho... After all, "High Speed" was meant for WOT only anyway--right? :-)

            I think I went through this in an earlier post, but here's those switches' functions once again: From left to right, there's the headlight/marker-light pull-switch, the 3-speed switch, Speed Limit switch, PAS On/Off switch, Throttle-Signal link/unlink switch, and Reverse switch. The momentary button on top is the Manual Cruise switch (for front-motors only).

            Left of that button, there's room for the temp-sensor I ordered. I'll monitor things for a while before commiting to install that thing on my console tho... If the motors show no indication they're prone to overheat, then there won't be much reason for constantly monitoring them. I could just tuck that meter into the electronics bay (under the rear bench-seat)--maybe even set it up with long cords--let me velcro it to the handlebars for when I'm doing super-intense hot-rodding, or when slogging through deep sand, or playing in the mud.

            I do really like that console. I like the controls all being right there--and I love having it all nice and waterproof (that console actually would almost meet that Jet Ski Standard I often get spun up about). Seriously--with that console safely containing all the otherwise vulnerable exterior connections, I'll have zero issues parking outside--in any kind of weather.

            This machine is amazing! :-)

            More to follow, I'm sure...
            Last edited by tklop; 01-29-2020, 09:17 AM.

            Comment


            • calfee20
              calfee20 commented
              Editing a comment
              Do you have temperature sensors in the hub motors? If you are having to much fun you could be heating them up. LOL

            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              Hey, calfee20

              I see that wasn't really clear--the way I wrote that...

              Yes, I do have the sensors installed in the motors, I've just got nothing to plug them into--no way to monitor their signals yet.

              I've only really pegged the throttle for the front-motors a few times--and briefly, so I hope I haven't cooked anything that easily.

              But I should be careful--and not let the thrill get the better of my reason!

              Once the dual temp-meter shows up from Uncle Ali I'll have a way to monitor--but not yet.

              The Cyclone controllers can monitor their own internal temp--but without an external connection for a sensor (or any settings in the app), I don't think they can keep tabs on motor temp.

              (If they can--that'd be okay--esp. if I could set an "auto-cut-off" temp).

              Good point though.

              And until I can monitor the temps, I'm going to keep it fairly low-key.

              Hmmm... Just had a thought: My battery's BMS has temp monitoring. If it can handle the temp-range of the motor (needs to be able to monitor up to 130 degrees celsius) then that might be an interim option... Wiring would be awkward perhaps--but for a temp solution, maybe that's what I ought to do.

              I suppose I could evem splice in the sensor-wires--replacing the return-legs from the sensors in the tips of a couple digital meat thermometers... Hmmm...

              Thanks!
              Last edited by tklop; 01-29-2020, 09:28 AM.

            #74
            Battery saga...

            I think (I really hope) I'm finally "there".

            To summarize:

            Bought a 16s 2p 100AH LiFePO4 battery in a rolling trolley-case from one of the well-reviewed battery vendors on Ali Express.

            From the very beginning, the battery didn't work--shut down after about 7 kilometers.

            The original BMS had no display, no interface--so in order to try to figure out what was wrong with it, I replaced the BMS (had a 150A bluetooth BMS on-hand--fortunately).

            By observing the readouts on the new BMS, I was able to determine that the battery had a bad cell-pair, causing one series-string to hit the LVC and shut down the battery--while all the rest of the cells were still practically fully charged.

            The vendor at Uncle Ali's sent me a 3.65V 3A Balance Charger--to verify whether the cells could perform--if brought back up to charge.

            It took a while to get all the cell-groups balanced, but ultimately that didn't work.

            Having determined definitively that the cell-pair was bad, the vendor sent me repair cells--which I installed.

            During the course of repacing the cells, I caught a glimpse of one of the cells' original barcode sticker-labels (from the cell-manufacturer)---which read (unsurprisingly) 38AH.

            Sure enough--after reassembly, everything worked fine--but the 100AH expected capacity obviously wasn't there--as there were only 76AH worth of cells in there.

            Oh, I know: This is industry standard practice. This is also why Luna's batteries are so darn popular--Luna actually delivers what they're saying they are! But since Luna cannot (and will not) ship to the EU--folks like me? We're left to sift through the rip-offs...

            So, yeah. Sure. I knew the capacities would probably be bogus. I expected that. No shock.

            But at the same time, I was completely willing to go ahead and pay the extra money --to get the capacity I'd asked for. I mean--that's the point of a "custom order" isn't it? So you can actually get exactly what you want? Grrr...

            No--I get it... Bottom line for battery-vendors, is there's just no way to "price-match" in an industry where everybody lies--unless you're lying too.

            My battery vendor isn't "bad" --for overblowing capacity numbers--they're actually "good" for offering so much excellent post-purchase support (not normally an Uncle Ali "thing" per-se). He sent me the balance-charger and the repair cells for free (no shipping either)--and provided solid instructions for the repairs--essentially a crash-course on battery-assembly and manufacture. I can't blame them--when every battery seller in the world including Elon Musk and Tesla are doing the exact same when it comes to capacity.

            Not when our dear friends at Luna Cycle are the only angels in the industry when it comes to honesty and capacity!

            It may sound strange to say, but with all the messages back and forth, all that vendor's help, and through all the ups and downs--I've actually developed a friendship with him.

            Explaining the capacity situation, and how I am still willing to pay to get that 100AH battery I wanted in the first place--the vendor--understanding my frustrations, gave me a stiff discount, as well as free customs and shipping --on another 16 of their 38AH cells--to increase that 76AH capacity battery up to 114AH.

            For me--the bottom line is also this: If they'd built this battery that way in the first place--I'd have paid just as much to buy it--no question. It's a quality battery, good-quality cells, well-built, etc. No issues with quality at all--just had a pair of bad cells. That can happen. I've gained some knowledge, and a balance-charger for my troubles too. In the end, I've wound up with exactly the battery I wanted--so, well... It was a circuitous journey perhaps--but I arrived at it eventually. I'd label that a success.

            And just now--I've finally gotten it put back together, and back into its wheeled suitcase... I had to rearrange, but all the cells fit (amazingly). It's one heavy beast of a battery--and no mistake.

            Here's hoping I haven't damaged the battery during the rebuild--that'd be just my luck!

            More to follow...
            Last edited by tklop; 02-01-2020, 04:48 AM.

            Comment


            • calfee20
              calfee20 commented
              Editing a comment
              Oh I like this post. I have just been reading about RV solar systems and I have decided to go with LiFePO4 over flooded lead acid in the battery bank. Your unique cargo bike allows you to use this type of battery which is safer but heavier and they are supposed to last 5000 - 10,000 charging cycles. Did you ever post a photo of your battery?

            • calfee20
              calfee20 commented
              Editing a comment
              I skimmed back through your thread and found a photo of your batteries. Could you post a link to the batteries. I would be interested in checking them out.

            • tklop
              tklop commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks, calfee20

              The first battery I bought also didn't live up to its expected specs--but that vendor never responded to me again, so yeah. That one? Not recommended. I might have worked with that person too--but they chose to run away and hide. That one was called "Battery Sir" --and (at the time) had pretty decent reviews.

              Next time, I purchased from Foxell. That's my latest--and (since I cannot buy from Luna) will also likely my only vendor,

              I've bought four batteries from them now (altogether). All four are 48V; all but the fish-battery were LiFePO4 chemistry.

              I've not bothered with figuring out the exact capacity of the three smaller batteries--I just made damn sure to buy about three to five times as much as the market generally offers--and about half-again what I expected to need. I've had no disappointments. My 30AH LiFePO4 rack-battery will get me from here in Zeist, to Woerden, and back again--on one charge--and yeah, that's me pedaling on the TSDZ2--but it's on Turbo Mode the whole way. I've run that battery flat--but only when I've forgotten to charge. Other than my own forgetfulness, I've not had any issues with the other three batteries at all. My ex too has had no problems at all--but then, she's a little less forgetful. So far, she's never been stuck with a dead battery (to date) but having two e-bikes to choose from might have something to do with that.

              The three smaller battery purchases were two rack-batteries; one for my city-bike conversion and one for my ex's city-bike conversion; and one fish-style battery for my ex's now-electric TSDZ2- Giant Mio.

              The "Trolley Battery"--subject of this posting--came in a super-heavy-duty hard-shell wheeled equipment case (you can jump up and down on it when closed--it's that strong)...

              --I have gotten a picture of--and when I come back to this post via my mobile device, I'll post it. [edit--done--see below]

              It's together--the BMS is sitting in there kinda funny-at an angle--but that's on purpose--to give it as much free-air movement around it as possible (in that little corner)... You'll see when get the picture up.

              Here's the vendor's Ali Express Store (they're just coming out of holiday season). https://foxell.aliexpress.com/store/...8c2542c4s42q3t

              Based upon what (in my experience) seems to be the DOC --the Standard Battery Industry "Deviation in Overestimated Capacity"--adding roughly 25% to the capacity I wound up with in the end--that's probably what the item will be sold as... Follow?

              In other words--if you want a 114AH battery--one exactly like mine--then be sure you buy a 150AH battery--because otherwise, you won't get your 114. If you buy a 100AH battery, you'll get 74AH. If you buy a 60AH battery, you'll get 45AH...

              In other words--my 114AH battery--would likely be listed as a 150AH battery. Once you understand the DOC--it's easy to decipher the "capacity-code" of buying--and you know just how much extra capacity to ask for. It's like calculating sales tax, or some other "conversion-rate"--once you know the correct factors to apply--it ceases to be all that complicated.

              And--I'll get that picture up shortly...

              There it is... Down there in the next post--#249.
              Last edited by tklop; 02-01-2020, 11:43 PM.

            #75
            My battery--now a 16s 3p 114AH LiFePO4 in a wheeled case.

            150A continuous-rated BMS with Bluetooth (vendor sells a similar one--like I said, I used my own as a replacement early on)

            On the rebuild, rather than the vendor's original double 10AWG wires, I opted to use 6AWG single-cables (same normal high-temp high-strand-count silicone "Super-Flex" cables we always use). Also, the original standard (grey) Anderson connectors aren't adequate in terms of discharge-amperage, so I opted for the 200A (light blue) Anderson connectors (and nice red rubber caps) --ordered locally.

            The 10A "Smart-Charger" came with--but I added a separate port to the case, so there's no more need for the adapter.

            So--yeah. I've made a few "mods" to the original design.

            Also, I obviously had to unwrap the battery--undo all the hand-made craftsmanship of the fine folks at Foxell--but this also really gave me a lot of insight into the assembly and construction of the battery. I had to open it all up for the repair I'd done--that cell-replacement. But this time, I had to disconnect all the cells, in order to add one per cell-group.

            So at this point, the battery has been entirely rebuilt by me--though of course with the help of "Kevin" at Foxell.

            I reused some of his barrier materials, some of the original padding, some I've got lying around--a lot of his hardware, and a good bit of my own--but that's still the same case the original came in.

            The cells were originally lain out flat in the case, side-by-side, in two stacks of 16 cells.

            It took a while to decide on an arrangement that had a chance to work--but yeah... Now the cells are on edge--still in two blocks, but now one block of 15, and one block of 32 cells... Anyways, there she is!

            Click image for larger version  Name:	ae_1580550271998.jpg Views:	0 Size:	88.8 KB ID:	100931

            I realize there's not really any reference for scale--except perhaps for the charger...

            It's a big suitcase. It weighs probably close to what I do.

            There's a layer of high-density plastic packaging-foam under the battery, and another layer went over the top before I closed the lid on it.

            Took the battery out for an hour or two (still no meter for the temp-sensors--so not much hot-rodding; mostly actually around 20 kph or less). Just trying to learn the "feel" of the new motors' baseline settings... Customization will take a while--it's a Cyclone controller. But I'll find the Goldilocks Combo eventually--and then re-address the 4KW Cyclone to try to match up.

            I really do love how quiet the DD motors are... Whisper-quiet...
            Last edited by tklop; 02-01-2020, 11:27 PM.

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